BT: We welcome you into another episode of "Let's Go State," the official podcast of Penn State Athletics and we'd rather be doing this in a different fashion, in a different manner and with a different topic in mind, but, pleased to be joined by the Vice President for Intercollegiate Athletics, Sandy Barbour. Sandy, not the best of circumstances, but appreciate you some taking time out of your busy schedule to join us today.
SB: Well, no, Brian, thank you, appreciate the opportunity. Obviously this is a community that is very well connected and passionate and particularly connected around our students and our student-athletes and our intercollegiate athletics programs and that's all kind of been cut, cut off and so, all of these different kinds of opportunities to actually have some conversation and talk about Penn State Athletics and particularly our incredible students. I'm, I'm pleased to be doing that.
BT: Yeah, I wanted to start with that too. Almost as a disclaimer, that with everything going on with the pandemic and the Coronavirus crisis around the globe, there are a lot bigger things in play than sports here. That being said, for Penn State student-athletes, coaches, staff, fans, you and I, a huge part of our life is sports. And, number one, we want everyone to be safe and healthy, but this is an unusual time and sports teaches us lessons about life and life lessons. So, this, this is an experience for everyone, really.
SB: Oh, absolutely, Brian. I mean, you know, first and foremost, this is bigger than sport, and that's, and there is no doubt about it, and ultimately all the steps that we're taking are based on medical advice, based on the health and safety and protecting the health and safety of our students, our staff, and ultimately any impacts that it might have on our community. But having said that, sport is a really powerful, social entity and this is a loss. This is a huge loss. And, when you take it down to, to the individual level, you know, obviously, in the last five, six days, I've spent a lot of time thinking about individual students and particularly seniors. You know, it's hard enough when a season ends kind of unexpectedly, you know, based on a loss or, maybe for an individual, based on an injury, but this, this came out of left field. This came out of left field, in terms of its impact, and its suddenness of the conclusions to the seasons for our winter and spring sports student-athletes. And yet, at the same time, we're learning every day about this, about this Coronavirus and about the pandemic.
BT: Yeah, and this is something that evolves, not only day-to-day, but hour-to-hour, it seems, or even minute-to-minute. Sandy, take us back over the last couple of weeks, what has the experience been like from your position and when did you start to know that this may become a reality here?
SB: Well, I would, from an institutional standpoint, the University has been looking at this in an organized way, I would say, for over a month and making sure that, as there were obviously implications in other countries, that we were taking health and safety precautions here that were prudent based on what we knew, based on the medical advice that we were getting at the time, so we as an athletic department had been participating in those conversations and then the campus started to look at, perhaps, distance learning, the remote delivery of classes. You know, we were in a little bit of a unique situation, our spring break was a little bit early based on the calendars of a lot of other schools, so last week with our students being gone, I'll break it down from an athletics perspective. Fall sports students were away, were at home, were on spring break or wherever they deemed it appropriate to be. Our winter sports student-athletes were either on the road with their teams or they were here training. And then, our spring sports student-athletes were all mostly on the road with traditional spring break trips and competition. So, it became clear, I believe, Tuesday what direction the University was going to move in from a precautionary standpoint, which was to go to the remote delivery. I believe that was announced on Wednesday. I was supposed to leave Wednesday morning to go to Indianapolis for Big Ten meetings ahead of our men's basketball participation in the Big Ten tournament. And, I cancelled my 5:55 a.m. flight on Wednesday morning to participate in some University discussions and then prepare some communications. Then, I was supposed to go with men's basketball at, I believe, like noon that day on their charter. As the day progressed, I cancelled that. And, we spent the day preparing communications and communicating and doing kind of the logistical things that we were going to need to do to prepare student-athletes to either return to campus or do, do their classroom work remotely. I took that 5:55 a.m. flight Thursday morning to Indianapolis, arrived in Indianapolis, took the cab to the arena for our team's shoot around, our men's basketball team's shoot around. We went back to the hotel and I immediately jumped on a call with the other Big Ten ADs and it just, it went from there. And first, the tournament, the Big Ten tournament got cancelled, then the Big Ten took the unprecedented step to cancel all winter and spring sports championships. The team, we jumped on a plane about 2:30, 3:00 Thursday afternoon to come back to State College and, unfortunately, while we were in the air, the ultimate decisions were made by the NCAA about cancelling the tournament. And when we landed everybody turned their phones on, and that is how they found out. And, that's one of my big regrets in all of this is because of how fast this moved, because of social media, because we were all traveling, moving around the country, we weren't all sitting around conference rooms, that this news was not managed as well was we would have liked it to have been. It's, you know, under the circumstances, understandable, but I do have lots of regrets around that.
BT: Yeah, and at the time, a lot of people were wondering if this was the right decision. In retrospect, now, it certainly is the right decision. How was the reaction of the basketball team and the players and, then, what was the reaction like from other coaches and players from other teams from across the University as you had an opportunity to converse with them?=
SB: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's anger. It's, it's disappointment. It's, you know, the immediate, and I'm not just talking about our young people, but, you know, the immediate response for any of us involved in this is kind of disbelief. It's, you know, "how can this happen?" "how can that be?" "there's got to be other options" and then your mind goes to "well, couldn't we do this or couldn't we do that?" or "why, why didn't we do that?" I would say, in the moment, I completely understood. Now I also had a lot of the background information and medical advice and the, the thoughts around, you know, blunting the curve, flattening it and all of the information around even, even young people who aren't as susceptible to, to really, serious implications, health implications from this. They still have serious implications to our community and carrying this, so I did have the benefit of all that, that we now have today. So I certainly understood and agreed with and supported the, the fact that we couldn't have thousands and thousands of people gathering in arenas or indoor tracks or natatoriums or 40,000 people in Minneapolis for a wrestling champion, an NCAA wrestling championship, but I did feel like there were thoughts in my mind about, you know, why, why do we have to cancel everything. Can't we take a kind of wait and see approach, and I think that would have been defensible as well, and yet now, five, six days later, four, five, six days later, it's clear that, that we're not, we're not going to be in a position to gather thousands and thousands of people any time soon. So, in retrospect, I think it was absolutely the right decision. Incredibly painful, incredibly painful and that's understandable. And the wide variety of reactions from tears to, you know, I've talked to a number of our coaches over the course of the last few days, it's, you know, everything from "Sandy, we weren't doing particularly well, but I love this team. I didn't wanna, you know, I didn't want this to end" or, or, "you know, we had a chance to win it all." And, it's, it's all of that, but I will say, Brian, that all of my feelings and emotions and, and how I look at Penn State as an institution and an athletic department and have only been heightened and solidified throughout this. We're about each other. We're about people and yes, people have mentioned national championships and Selection Sunday and, you know, Lamar Stevens being seven points shy of the career record and our men's hockey team, you know, having a legit chance to win, win the Frozen Four. Those things have all been mentioned. Of course they have, they're a part of who we are, but, but the predominate conversation has been around who we are as a community and, and what we mean to each other and our connectedness and our engagement.
BT: Yeah, and I want to get into what Penn State, and what the plans are to recognize and honor those players and teams that have achieved something special. But, but first, Sandy, at this time, what is Penn State doing, what are they asking student-athletes to do, what is the plan right now as the University shifts all online and the Big Ten says no organized team activities through the first week of April?
SB: So that's what we've been spending our time, I would say, for the better part of the last four, four plus, four or five days. And, we have, first and foremost, followed the University's lead. All of our students are being encouraged to go home, to leave campus. There are a variety of, of reasons for individuals where that's, that's not, either, it's not an option, like some of our international students, or, it's, it's not the wisest option. That they're actually better off here than they would be at home. We've had several sets of parents that have said "I don't, I don't, given where they might live, I don't want, we don't want them coming home. They'll be better, they'll be safer in State College." So, we, we screened all of the student requests to stay. There weren't a lot. There weren't a lot. You know, we have a little over 800 student-athletes and I think at our best count yesterday, we had mid-twenties who were living on campus, in on-campus facilities, which the University is providing for students in general who meet certain criteria. Some of the ones I just talked about. We have students who need to be here for academic reasons. We have students who need to be here for, for medical reasons, meaning that they've just had a, a surgery and, and their rehab needs to take place here with their physician. And, we have students that have a variety of other, other reasons, again, why they're better off here. So, we've got mid-twenties being housed on campus. We've probably got another 40, mid-forties, that live in, live full-time in off-campus apartments, or off-campus housing. And, they have stayed. We are providing, the University is providing, food service for those that they've approved to stay. And, then we are providing both medical care and, and academic support through our Morgan Academic Center. Now, just like the library, it, there's going to be limited hours, because we have limited staffing. But all of our, let's say at this point, mid-sixties, let's say 65, student-athletes who have stayed in the area have an opportunity to be seen medically. Obviously, they're getting advice from a Coronavirus standpoint, that if, if they believe that they are exhibiting symptoms to call or text their trainer. And those things will be handled with all the precautions that we are doing as a community. But if they are rehabbing a knee or shoulder or something and need to, to come into the training room, that's been handled. And then the same for the Morgan Academic Center.
BT: And just so fans out there listening have an idea, all the teams that were traveling, any student-athletes that were away for spring break, whatever, have they, have they all been accounted for, healthy, as you can share with us? Whether they're coming back to campus or going home, wherever they were going. Was the Athletic Department able to communicate with them?
SB: Yes, that's a, that's a great clarification, Brian. I appreciate it. We had all of our teams return to State College, but they were all here, accounted for, safe, by Friday night, by midnight on Friday night. And, then most of them, not all, most of them, dispersed from there. With the, with all of this happening while students were away on spring break, the University provided an opportunity for students to come back and get books, get laptops, get personal items out of, out of their dorm rooms. So, our student-athletes have also had, obviously, that same opportunity.
BT: Yeah, let's shift gears here now and we're talking about how do you honor and celebrate some of the accomplishments that a lot of the teams, whether it's a winter sports team that wasn't able to compete for a championship or a spring sports team that was off to a great start this year? And, I think men's basketball with the magnitude of March Madness was at the forefront of everyone's mind and, obviously, they were going to earn a bid on Selection Sunday. And, I know, you were a proponent, Sandy, of having an announcement of a NCAA basketball tournament bracket. So, what is going to be done for the program, for Pat, for the seniors and everything they accomplished this year?
SB: Yeah, honestly, Brian, I'm a, I'm a proponent that, that we do everything we, we can. I mean, I was asked by a media member, specifically, about men's basketball and, and the bracket, you know, I, I, I think we ought to figure out a way, and, believe me, I understand. Dan Gavitt's got a, Vice President for men's basketball for the NCAA, he's got a really, really tough job and I don't disagree with all of the information he's put out there about what the challenges are. But, I do think that we need to find a way to do a men's and women's basketball bracket, to do a, or men's and women's ice hockey bracket, cause then, you know, the media can speculate. I mean, they're doing it any way. But the media can then take that and some, have some fun with it. It's fraught with, with challenges and, and problems, but I think it's worthwhile. We've got some really great brains out there and, and a lot of intellectual firepower and I, I bet we can, we can come up with a way to, to, to do it. But, one of the phone calls I had to make was to John Gondak, who was sitting in his hotel room in, in New Mexico with the men's and women's indoor track championships starting the next day. And, you know, so what, what can, what can we do for track. Obviously, those fields had been set. Those young men and young women knew that they were in and knew they were going to get a chance to compete. They didn't get that opportunity to compete. So, it's, you know, we have fencers, we had a fencing team that knew it could compete for the national championship. Swimmers, gymnasts, now, you know, our two gymnastics programs were not as far along. They hadn't had their Big Ten championships, so it's, it's difficult. It's challenging. There's no doubt about it, but, but I think we, I think we've got, we got to spend more time thinking about it. Cause I think these young men and women deserve it. From a, from a Penn State standpoint, I'll be, I'll be really honest, we've been focused on the logistics of accounting for everybody. There have been, we, we did have some, some students, both international students and domestic students, who over spring break had been places that we've, that as an institution, we felt like we needed to take some precautions. We have staff members that had taken the opportunity for spring break to go some places, so we needed to make sure we had all that accounted for and that people that needed to self-quarantine were properly instructed to do so and then are, are doing so. So, we, we have not really had an opportunity to, to, to talk about specifics, although I know our marketing team is, is, is doing some brainstorming, so I know that from. They're doing it remotely. They're practicing social distancing. We've not really had an opportunity to sit down and, and talk about specifics, but there's no doubt, there is a commitment on this department's part when the time is right to do it and, and, and to, to do it, in a, you know, in a big way because these young people deserve that.
BT: Yeah, Sandy you've used the word disappointed a couple of times, so what was the message that you were able to share with those coaches and those players? Can you give us a little insight into the conversation that you had with them as their season concluded?
SB: Yeah, it's, you know, it was, it was certainly heartfelt. It was making sure that they understood that these decisions were not, not done casually. No one was cavalier about their opportunity to compete and, obviously, taking that away. That this was about solid science and, and medical advice. I mean, our kids are really smart and they needed to hear that. They needed to hear that the adults were, that the adults understood, and not that many of them or not all of them are adults, but that, that those that were making these decisions didn't just think that this was no big deal to end their season. And then, just to let them know that, that I, that I knew this was devastating. You know, I was talking to a coach yesterday, and I said, and it's been a long time, but as a coach, I mean the most depressed I've ever been, consistently, was at the end of seasons. When it was just over. And that we all needed to take care of each other and that we would get through this and that as much as this hurt right now, and that my heart ached for them. It still does today. That 20 years from now, we'll look back on this and this will, particularly for our students, there will be lessons from this that will make them better husbands and wives and fathers and mothers and community leaders. And, that I don't blame them for not, not believing that or thinking that right now because it just hurts. And, and that hurt is natural and okay. But, let's hurt together.
BT: And the NCAA already announced that it is going to provide an extra year of eligibility for spring sport athletes. There are obviously a lot of dynamics going on here. How do you envision this transpiring and could it, perhaps, transpire for winter sport athletes as well, who, who haven't had the opportunity to compete in a championship?
SB: Yeah, let me take let the, let me take the spring sport first because I do, I do think that there, and I've been a part of a number of conversations, particularly over the course of the last two days, trying to get to the bottom of the logistics because they're important. I appreciate that particularly for our, our spring sports students that NCAA felt it was important to quickly get that out there because they're making plans, but the details are important too. And, so we're, we're trying to, we're trying to work through those, and we don't have any answers at this point, but I can, I can identify for our listeners what the kind of the salient points are. And, obviously, it is financial aid. We've, we've already committed, mostly, to a group of freshmen to replace the seniors that we believed were leaving. And so there would need to be, to keep those seniors, allow those seniors to stay and do another year, there would need to be accommodations on the, on the financial aid end. That, we can do. Then, what are, what are the implications as it relates to squad limits? At face value, that, that we can do. Obviously, a financial implication, but also, you know, all of us, particularly at the Power 5 level, manage a pretty fine balance as it relates to proportionality, from a gender equity and a Title IX standpoint, you know, that's not just something that's going to get waived because we've had a worldwide health crisis. So, just, lots to, lots of things to think about. We are working on it. I do, as much as there is some urgency around those details, we also have to get it right. And that holds true also of, of the winter sports, obviously different, a different dynamic. Most of our spring sports were less than a third through their season and, and obviously, with conference and NCAA championships to follow. And the winter sports were, some of them were done. Some, some of them, most women's basketball programs had, across the country had gotten to their conference tournaments and, and certainly some of those, some of those programs were not going to advance to NCAAs or women's NIT. So, some of them were done. Some of them were towards the end of the regular season. Some of them had gotten through, through Big Tens or their conference tournament, and were, were heading to NCAAs. I've already talked about our indoor track program was actually sitting at the site and got it cancelled from under them. That's very different than where our spring sports were. No less gut-wrenching. Actually, in many cases, more, more gut-wrenching because of, of a team or an individual on the precipice of a, of a pursuit of a national championship. So, to be seen, to be determined. Lots, lots of conversations to, to have.
BT: And, I'm guessing the answer to this last question may be "to be determined" as well, because of the evolving health crisis and everything going on, but is there any sense of when, not even to get back for a competition, but when student-athletes may have a chance to get back on campus to train? And when, is there a chance that this could go on into football season? Is it just too early to make any type of decision at this time?
SB: Yeah, I think, Brian, you know, that's the question everybody wants to know, right? What we will do and, you know, how much, how much food and toilet paper do we have stocked up at home, but it's, you know, the answer to that question is we will get back on campus and we will get back to normalcy when it's healthy to do so, right? And, we, we don't know when that is. I do know, and I'm obviously not a medical professional, I do have unfortunately, and fortunately, I guess, some in my family. I'm getting all kinds of information from them, including a couple that live in the Bay area, which, which obviously is on lock down. But I do know that if we want any chance to have this thing start to normalize any time soon, we need to all do everything we're being told to do. And, that's why it was so important that the sports world do what it did, not only to protect the health and welfare of, of the individuals who'd compete and, and those that would come and watch us, but our entire communities. And, also to set the example, which is again we started with the power of sport. This is, this health crisis is way bigger than sport and yet at the same time, and I'm, you know, I'm an optimist by trade and I'm already looking at coming out the other side of this in a whole lot of different ways. Number one, to make sure we're prepared. But, number two, I know that sport will be a part of the healing, will be a part of the restoration, part of coming back as communities and I know specifically that Penn State Athletics, for Happy Valley and Centre County and this community, will be a huge part of bringing us all back together.
